She discussed the realities of parenting with Katy Perry on The Goop Podcast.

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Gwyneth Paltrow is opening up about the realities of parenting — and she’s not holding back. On Tuesday’s episode of her podcast, The Goop Podcast, Paltrow sat down with pop star Katy Perry to talk about the strain having children can put on a partnership.

“It’s hard on a relationship. Like I’ve looked back now on like the data set of parents with young kids. ‘It just … ruins the relationship,” Gwyneth laughed. “It’s really hard!”

While Perry agreed that adding young kids to the mix definitely changes the dynamic of a relationship, she argued that it’s easier to make it through those tough years if each partner is on the same page. “I think if both people in the relationship are willing to do the work then it’s going to be so much easier,” Perry argued. “But if one person thinks they don’t have any work to do then it’s going to be really challenging.”

Although both women acknowledged the challenges that come with being a mom, Paltrow and Perry agreed that the rewarding moments of motherhood far outweigh the difficult ones.

“I never felt lonely again after I had her [Apple] … and I had felt profoundly lonely in my life,” Paltrow revealed. In addition to Apple, the Goop founder also shares 16-year-old son Moses with her ex-husband Chris Martin and is a stepmother to two kids from her now-husband, Brad Falchuk’s, previous marriage.

Perry, who shares her two-year-old daughter Daisy with Orlando Bloom, echoed the sentiment, adding that she “felt really lost” and like life “wasn’t enough” before welcoming her first child back in 2020.